Do you believe the ‘believers’ believe?

14 comments

  1. Realy? Flat E? U wot mate? You realy want to get me started, don’t you? 😀

    Anyway, I’m not able to determine for sure which option, the guy from the story, would choose, but he appears to be pretty stupid.

    1. I’m quite interested in the motives of the individuals behind the new ‘flat earth’ hobby. I think they’re playing a game. And people just love to argue! I like the idea of fighting an impossible fight so I can appreciate what they’re up to. Unfortunately I worry that the sheep will believe.

      1. What do you like about the idea of fighting impossible fight? It looks to me as very frustrating unproductive energy wasting process.

        I’m undecided when it comes to how much are “leaders” of flat earthers, just trolls / pranksters… I think it most likely differ from case to case, and the range of motives is very similar if not same as for any cult / church leaders. Looking into minds of some of them would be definitely interesting, but as long as we have to depend on what they tell us, without any reliable honesty check, I’m done with that. When it comes to games, Doom 1&2 provide much more satisfaction to me.

        1. There’s an intellectual game to be played arguing a point you know to be false. I think that’s what’s going on here. But, and it’s a big but, from reading through some of the comment sections I think some people just might truly believe this flat earth nonsense!

      2. As intelectual / logical game, which is to be lost, I find, for example looking for way out of hard solipsism more interesting. I’d love to believe that the whole flat earth shit, is just sick joke, but looking into history of mankind, that kind of optimism doesn’t seem to have enough to stand on.

        Similar question can be raised when it comes to religion. Does Pope believe in god strongly enough that he would switch that machine to “universe with catholic god”? … Or would Anita Sarkeesian choose “universe where everthing is sexist”?

        Aaaand as we are at kind of interesting, but not practical thoughts, how about following: What if Flat Earth, Chemtrails and other conspiracy theories were started by, lat’s say, US goverment and EU to keep people busy with bullshit instead of important stuff?

  2. Conspiracy theorists ans Snake Oil salesmen seem to stick together, supporting eachother’s theories. As long as it’s got an Alien number system carved in a plie of breakfast crops, or a beyond Governmental super elite contolling the weather, it’s fair game. Mediums, Crystal Healers, Vegans, Homeopaths,Joggers, Dave Lee Travis, (maybe not the last two), I’ve seen it in real life, here on facebook, nobody will ever call bullshit on one of the other’s pseudo-scientific expletive expletive, for fear of getting called out themselves, and losing a whole profitable business.
    But stick one in a room with nobody watching….
    They’ll be the ones selling “Apocaplypse Therapy” after it all goes tit’s up..
    It’s just Dragon’s Den for people with no morals.

  3. I have never heard such rubbish everyone knows the world is a disc supported by four elephants balancing on a turtles back! they will be getting a visit from Lord Downey soon enough. We shall see what they believe then…..

  4. Yep, like I mentioned on another Flat-earth debate, I truly believe this is a social experiment being tracked by the illuminated, just to see how stupid/dumbed down the masses are.
    (I use illuminated as describing high level people who hold power over the governments via debt)

    I’m into conspiracies, some interesting stuff out there, including the EM Drive (Impossible drive) which now is being looked at by NASA after successful tests with China… you know the propulsion system for possible space travel that “defies physics” as the mainstream scientists once claimed… seems some science is plain wrong, it happens…
    I am not a flat earther.
    Funny thing is I do believe in “God”, not from some book or because someone convinced me of it… because I personally experienced my own “Jill Bolte Taylor” moment in my early 20’s, and in my experience, “God” is not the one described in the Torah,,,, and people can say “prove it”, “prove it” and all I have to go by is my own personal experience being ripped out of time and space for what felt like eternity… In fact I never knew what happened to me for over 15 years until I found someone “Jill” online in a TED video who experience the same thing.

    I can honestly say I have no fear of my death, only fear of not accomplishing what I want before my death.

    So does Mr Flat-Earther flick the switch? I guess it depends on his personal experience, if he has experienced it himself…

    Sorry i haven been posting here lately (or doing videos)… just so much going on with selling the house and preparing to move…

    1. I think I don’t understand you fully (or how to desrcribe it)… How is EMdrive linked to conspirancies? As far as I can tell it’s still being tested if it realy works and they are hypothesis about its principle which don’t contradict conservation of momentum. I don’t see any conspirancy there.

      About god… I’m atheist which happily argees on being satanist, if some fanatic calls him that, but on other hand I don’t have any problem with people believing in gods, I have problem that are willing to be violent, destructive or super annoying because of their faith… you don’t fit that description. I’m realy curious, how would you describe God you believe in?

      1. About God? To be clear, what I experienced was not with “sight”, It felt loosely more like a neural net attached to everything, It was me it was you, it was everyone that was and ever could be. But I speak from my own perception and what I deemed as important/unimportant at that time, someone else with a strong attachment to the physical might view the experience as frighting. It didn’t give me any commandments or orders to follow, I was just “shown” me the other side, and that was simply amazing to experience. I experienced something that physically could not be accurately described, when I got back into my head, it was like squeezing a sponge full of water into a small cup… you lose a lot of what was absorbed.
        It was not something that would command someone to kill someone. I felt at home there, like I was a loved one returning his homeland.
        The experience made me reject “religion”. I feel no need for it.

        1. Interesting thoughts and experiences here. The nearest I ever had to an out of body experience was when I heard my own band playing during a gig. Even though I was playing guitar and singing it was as if I was in the audience and I didn’t even have to think about what I was playing. I was just listening to the gig like it was a CD. Amazing. Only ever happened once, and only for a minute or so. But I remember thinking, even as it was happening, this is strange and will probably never ever occur again! Ha ha! How right I was!

          I have probably watched every Flat Earth video now. I consider myself an expert! Ha ha! I’ve stored the knowledge to maybe use in a future video (although I will definitely give it proper consideration because I know it will attract the haters!!!).

          I’ve moved on to Moon conspiracy theorists now. This is a really strange one. Now… Richard, I know you’ve expressed… less than positive opinions about NASA. I don’t really understand people’s problems with NASA. Is it an American thing? I’ve noticed that many of the Flat Earthers are likely people who don’t own a passport. It’s easier to believe you live on a flat Earth if you also believe that the USA IS the Earth! Likewise, do American citizens WANT to believe they’ve been lied to by NASA? Is NASA the devil? Why?

          So strange. I’ve viewed the multiple Apollo mission photos and videos. Absolutely genuine. Could not be faked. The technology did not exist to fake those things. It absolutely was easier to just fly to the Moon! Ha ha! Don’t get me wrong… when I really think about it it’s such an astonishing achievement. I don’t think the general public have a true sense of just how far away the Moon is!!! It’s especially evident in talk of Apollo photography fakery how close people believe the Moon is. Someone needs to explain to them that every planet in our solar system could fit between the Earth and the Moon. Yes, even Jupiter and Saturn. It is just miles and miles away! BIG TIME!!!

          But people did go there. And it is probably the greatest achievement in the history of anything. And the USA did it. And it’s own citizens don’t want to believe it. Why?!? It’s just so damn weird. Here in England we still bang on about winning the Soccer World Cup in 1966. Just imagine if we’d sent men to the Moon!?!?!? Fuck me!!! We’d bang on about it every single day!!!!

          Anyway, I suppose the long and short of it is… I want to understand why people WANT to disbelieve in things. Especially GREAT things! So, Richard, as a self-confessed conspiracy-theorist… can you give it a go? Explain why! 🙂

          ( The Flat-Earther doesn’t flick the switch 😉 )

          1. I actually believe we did go to the moon, and I have worked with NASA on conceptual artwork, specifically on the Marius Hills pit concept (if you google “Richard Kurbis NASA”). I also came us with some designs for asteroid mining.
            My conspiracy beef is with suppression of technology. I really think NASA have done themselves badly in not retaining their technology to take them back to the moon. There are a few things that lead me to question the authenticity of the more recent ventures, photographic in nature that look strangely out of place (talking Mars image http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/150828091444-mars-rat-super-169.jpg) but could be cleared up with more photos at different angles, but not something that would make me dismiss the whole space venture as void.
            A healthy dose of skepticism keeps one grounded, I think.
            I also do not believe Aliens are visiting us, I would first conclude that humans are behind all the sightings before even coming to any “alien” conclusion. I do believe we will find life in space, possibly “Intelligent Aliens” much later …100’s of years later if we manage to reach the stars.

            I can still accept a person for not believing that we went to the moon, and I wish NASA would stop using FX’s for educational purposes, and losing the tech for returning to the moon…it isn’t helping their positions.

        2. Thanks Richard for meaningful reply. I seem to be unable to print my thoughts about conpiracy theorists into coherent language, so this will probably end up as mess. From what you’ve written, you don’t match what I mean as conspiracy theorist, or god believer. My definition of conspiracy theorist is one who believes that WTC couldn’t fall because of heat from fire and that the way those buldings fell is in conflict with current understanding of physics, while the same person can’t explain or demonstrate any of those claims. Same thing as flat earthers claiming gravity doesn’t exist and gyroscopes used for aircraft navigation prove the flatness. All of it has same principle “I don’t understand it, therefore conspiracy”. I grew very noticable hatered towards manipulative nature of presentations of those ideas. On other hand I believe conpiracies exist, but there isn’t shitload of videos about those on youtube, plus it’s not practical to worry about those because we can’t be reasonably sure they exist or do anything about it. Which is very vaguely conected to my opinion about spiritual/other wierd expiriences. I trust you enough, for believing you expirienced that hardly describable something. I’m sure I saw UPFO (by me Unidentified Probably Flying Object), but I don’t believe it had to be something unknown or alien, because human perception is imperfect as much as human psyche. It’s as much probable it was secret military something as that it was failure of my sight+brain… or something else. I have no clue what it was and from that expirience I even can’t have any clue because I gathered no reliable informations about that “thing”. And we’re getting to the unsolvable phylosophical problem that there’s no difference between reality and perfect simulation of reality served through our sensory inputs.

  5. Cool! I’ll look into your NASA stuff! That is quite a claim to fame in my book! I do enjoy conspiracy theory stuff. I read and watch David Icke, the King of the conspiracy. But, that Mars photo is just a couple of rocks that look a bit like a rat. These things happen! Ha ha! You are definitely a candidate for a future channel idea I have … in a good way!

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